ORAL QUESTIONS
QUESTIONS TO MINISTERS
Question No. 1—Disability Issues
1. Hon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour) to the Minister for Disability Issues: Does she stand by her statement regarding funding for disability support services, "They have been trying to deal with that, and we have been working with them to deal with that since they alerted me in December"; if so, on what date was she first alerted to these funding issues?
Hon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for Disability Issues): Yes, I do. I also stand by my statement yesterday that there has been no reduction in funding for disabled people and no disabled people will lose access to funding for essential services, equipment, or support. The ministry is clarifying what this funding can be spent on to ensure it goes towards the direct needs of the disabled person. Parents and carers will still be able to use the support budget to pay for within-region travel and essential equipment and devices. We have inherited a situation from the previous Government where insufficient funding was provided for the policy settings that were in place. We are taking steps to address that short-term issue, but we will clearly need to address the longer-term issue as well, and I'm taking advice on that. The first I was alerted to the potential issue was 15 December, but, at that time, the ministry believed that they could manage potential overruns. I want to offer my sincere apologies to the disabled community. We absolutely accept that the engagement with the community over this change was inadequate and has created unnecessary uncertainty. We have taken that criticism on board and we will do better in the future.
Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan: On what dates did she first advise the finance Minister of a forecast overspend in disability support services that would require a change to the purchasing rules and equipment and modification services?
Hon PENNY SIMMONDS: In December, the ministry believed that they could manage this overrun. In subsequent months, that amount continued to trend towards an overspend. The context of this is that since 2018, the number of people accessing disability supports has increased by around 50 percent compared to population growth of 8.5 percent over that same period. The previous Labour Government was aware of this increase but did nothing to address the sustainability of the disability support service budget, but I assure the community that no disabled person will lose access to funding for essential services, equipment, or support.
Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The question was very clearly about a date: what date did she advise the finance Minister? Her answer was long but went nowhere near that.
SPEAKER: The Minister might like to consider the question again.
Hon PENNY SIMMONDS: The Minister and myself have been discussing Budget process over a number of months, and the Minister of Finance has been very clear that there will be additional funding to maintain crucial front-line disability services; she gave that answer in the House yesterday.
Hon Dr Duncan Webb: Point of order. If the Minister doesn't know or can't recall, she should say so, but that again didn't answer the question, which was very clearly: what date did she inform the Minister of the cost overruns?
SPEAKER: Well, I think that the addressing of the question is accepted on the basis that she indicated over a number of months they have been talking about increased funding.
Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan: On what date did she first request a pre-Budget commitment for additional funding for Whaikaha to retain flexibility of funding for disability support services?
Hon PENNY SIMMONDS: As I've said in my previous answers, 15 December was when I first was alerted to the issue. This is a matter that had been known by the previous Labour Government, and nothing had been done. The ministry thought that they could manage the overrun at that time. From this year onwards, they have been watching that fund engagement trend upwards and I have been in discussion with the Minister of Finance to do with the budgetary process.
Hon Dr Duncan Webb: Point of order. Once again the Minister gave a long amount of information about the problem but didn't actually answer the question, which was: when did she seek additional pre-Budget funding?
SPEAKER: Well, with all due respect to your position, the question itself makes an assumption about a process, and therefore I think any answer the Minister gave could be reasonable if it talked about matters that would relate to a Budget process, which she did.
Rt Hon Winston Peters: Is the Minister saying that she first learnt about the cost blowout here on 15 December and that, prior to that, no prior warning had come to any Minister in charge of that portfolio?
Hon PENNY SIMMONDS: I understand that the previous Government were made aware of the issues, and on 15 December I was made aware of the issues. At that time, the ministry felt they could deal with it, but the trend continued upwards and, therefore, I had ongoing discussions with the Minister of Finance.
Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan: Did she advise Cabinet or the Prime Minister's office that Whaikaha would be making changes to remove flexibility of funding; if so, on what date did she do so?
Hon PENNY SIMMONDS: Whaikaha have been dealing with a fund that the previous Government had no settings and no regulations around. That has left Whaikaha in a situation where they were dealing with a fund that absolutely increased enormously over the last few years. They have been trying to work with this. We are now working with them, and we also will be working with the disabled community around putting settings in place to ensure that the funding is directed and focused towards the needs of the disabled person. It is regrettable that there were no settings put in place by the previous Government to assist Whaikaha with the management of this fund.
Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan: Did she or her office sign out a briefing to approve the changes that took effect on 18 March, and, if so, when?
Hon PENNY SIMMONDS: Again, I answered this question yesterday. On 14 March, I was advised that these changes would be implemented from 18 March. I absolutely regret that we did not have fulsome engagement with the disabled community and that our communication could have been much better and could have not contributed to some of the anxiety that has occurred in the disabled community.
Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan: Point of order. Again, the question was not when it was brought to her about the changes that took effect on 18 March. It was very specific: did she or her office sign out a briefing approving those changes? And it wasn't addressed.
SPEAKER: I think that's a fair point. The question talks about whether a briefing on the changes—look, ask your question again. It's not my job to interpret the question. It's hard enough as it is.
Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan: Did she or her office sign out a briefing to approve the changes that took effect on 18 March; if so, when?
Hon PENNY SIMMONDS: Again, as I said both today and yesterday, on 14 March I signed the briefing that the implementation would occur on Monday, 18th.
Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan: What does she say to the mother who emailed her office and said, "Once or twice a year, I have taken myself off for a night when I've been able to find someone to come to my house and look after the children. I do not claim carer support for this but have utilised our respite funding. That's two nights a year I get to sleep undisturbed—that I get to sleep in past 7 a.m. Is this unreasonable?"?
Hon PENNY SIMMONDS: The access to that funding, under the settings that were there previously—absolutely nothing wrong was done by the person who accessed that. What we are saying is we need to look at the settings to ensure that the funding support goes to the person with the disability.